waterspyder | (no subject)

mmm... i'm not one hundred percent sure, but i don't think it's even legal for them not to let you take time off to go to a funeral.

#1: Depends on whose funeral

#2: Isn't there something in your contract about taking a certain number of unpaid days off a year without penalty? And isn't the presence of such rules, uh, legally required?

#1: My grandfathers.

#2: The legal requirement is that they give you one sick day for it.

I realise, but the question is would *I* walk out in a similar situation.

Meaning it would depend on whose funeral it was.

And I know of no legal requirement of time off for funerals. I know of legal requirements to allow time off in general, though, so I can't imagine why "I'm taking one of my 'sick' days on this specific day to go to a funeral" would be a problem.

For government there is usually an allowance for some family realated funerals in the contract but not for other funerals. Kerry should be eligable for time off to go to Josh's grandfather's funeral IF she is married to Josh or IF she is in a legally recognized common-law relationship with Josh. (I think.) If she is just engaged to Josh then no dice.

Do you have to "prove" that a family member died?

It would likely be within the legal rights outlined in such a contract to ask for proof. (Note: Airlines require proof for funeral related discounts.) Whether or not they do it would probably be up to the particular office but in either case there is going to be a record of the claim for leave and the reason.

For general benifits (married or common-law) I know that there is at least a formal legal declaration of status somewhere in the paperwork that one would declare such status. (That is likely double checked if a security check is completed.)

Personally, when I had to attend a friends funeral I took vacation time.

IF she has a contract, there is usually a clause for something called 'compassionate' or 'bereavement' leave. If not, you're right, there is no law that says you're allowed ANY time off for any reason except the most extreme (ie: you had a heart attack and are in IC for like a month or something). Granting time off is totally at the discretion of the employer unless it's your vacation, which non-probationary employees are allowed to take once a year (the reason they collect vacation pay from you - or most do anyways).

Now, if you just TAKE the time off, TECHNICALLY the employer can only fire you if he has given you documented warnings for TWO OTHER incidents that are against company policy. This applies to anything that isn't against the law - ie: you can't embezzle from the company or slug someone on the factory floor one or two times for free. I think past a certain number of days you're considered permanently AWOL and the employer can find someone to fill your job, but it's not one or two days that's for sure.

Of course these days employers can do whatever the fuck they like because MOST people wrong-headedly eschew unions (or have no opportunity to join one in the first place) and then find out that the labor courts in this country are prohibitively expensive and time consuming (not to mention they often return decisions that are ludicrous in the extreme).

I wouldn't call it "collecting vacation pay *from* you", and most places are cool about taking your vacation days 1 at a time as things come up.

Besides. I was thinking "personal day" or "sick day", which are common in office contracts.

(And working without a contract? Why would you do that? What employer would even try that?[1])

[1]: assuming legal above-board employment, natch.

>>And working without a contract? Why would you do that? What employer would even try that?[<<

Hate to break this to you mon vieux, but a very LARGE hunk of the workforce works without a contract. Most jobs in the service industry, hospitality business...a lot of manual labor gigs...all sorts of people work only under the umbrella of the Canadian Labor Laws. Happens all the time.

As a matter of fact, in most of Corporate North America (and even a number of Crown Coporations such as Canada Post) the trend is to use what's called 'casual' labor. People under micro-contracts (and when I use the term contract, what I mean is roaring fuckin joke)that periodically (albeit often gently) contravene the Labor Code.

They're out there.

How strange. I've never *not* had a contract, even for simple manual labour, except for literal day-to-day "lift a whole lot of dirt" work. Even my fast-food service and stacking vegetables jobs had written contracts.

Regardless, I'd be very shocked if our gracious host didn't have a written contract.

I don't have a contract with Empire. Out of all the places I've worked, the only place I did have a contract with was CVG.

On point #2 - Unless it is in a seperate provision in your contract then, according to government of Ontario there is no legal guarantee if Kerry work in an office with less than 50 people.

Health Canada employs more than 50, though, so I figured I was pretty safe on that mark.

So, I believe, does her temp agency.

Is it the temp agency or the Health Canada office that's giving you grief?

And... hrm... yeah, I think I'd say "fuck it" to the job, although I might phrase it "I'm sorry, there's been a death in the family and I'm afraid I won't be able to be in on (day X); I realize this is very short notice and I think I should be able to make up the time within (period).". I can afford to be suddenly unemployed, and the other temp agencies like me, and I don't think it'll screw my resumé (as I'm quite sure the co-worekers would give good reference). And you are, if anything, more employable than I and with a better resumé.

For a *temp agency*? When you're doing work for hire? Some of them don't even give you vacation time, they substitute 4%.

Good to know, although I hope it never comes up.

If it's your relative, yes.

Under Ontario law, you get a minimum of 10 unpayed days off for personal reasons, although documentation may have to be supplied. Being sick counts, as does having a death in the family (as does your kids being sick, as does your house being flooded).

If you and Josh are married they are legally required to give you at least one day off.

If you are not, then out of common courtisy and human decency they should give you a day off.

To answer the question:

If they were breaking my contract I'd fight it and probably leave.

If they were not breaking my contract I'd stay but be far more inclined to take the next opportunity that came up to get another job.

I'd just go and say worry about if I had a job when I got back.

As af follow up, where do you work? Because if you location employs less than 50 people you are not entitled to it unless emegerency leave was negotiated seperately. This link may help - http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/factsheets/fs_leave.html

She works for health canada.

Then, unless she is common-law with you, she is unlikely to get paid funeral leave. However she is far more likely to be allowed to take vacation or unpaid leave unless she is essential staff. She also *may* be covered by a union and therefore have access to a stewart who could explain the situation better than I.

(Note... very short term contracts may be different in ways I do not know about.)

She works with a temp agency. They have placed her at Health Canada, but it is not Health Canada's rules which are in effect. It's the agency's, and they tend to be somewhat harsh (my favourite was finding out you don't get paid for stat holidays unless you've been working for the previous three months. Possibly it was four months. Either way, *not happy*).

But from what I recall from working at Industry, your summary is correct.

Then as long as you are recognized as a common-law (Did you fill it in on your tax forms this past year? That would be your best proof either way.) they can't stop her from taking up to 10 days even if there are no provisions in her specific contract as the ESA is over and above what is agreed. If you are not recognized as common-law they she has no leg to stand on.

The other possibility is if they hired Kerry Inc to do the work and not Kerry. Kerry could easily take time off from Kerry Inc but Kerry Inc could be in violation of its agreement with Health Canada.

We arn't common law according to revenue canada. Other government agencies do consider us common law. She also is there through a temp agency.

Anyway, this is achedemic, as it looks like she got Tuesday off.

Good good. I double checked and she is not legally entitled to anything since it was not her relative that passed away.

Yes I would - as soon as I had another one lined up.

Wise and prudent, but not as satisfying I'm sure. Also not likely to get to the funeral on time.

This is a long weekend so maybe she can make arrangements to be there for the family other than at the funeral?

Would depend on whose funeral, where it was, what the job was, how much they were paying me, how long I had planned to have the job for, how much money I have saved up, etc.

I would only risk the job at hand in such a situation if the funeral was for a family member or friend, I don't think I would for the funeral of the friend of a friend or family of a friend, since I find funerals to be very personal things, and I feel awkward and out of place if I feel no connection to the person who has died, and I feel like I'm intruding on other peoples' mourning. But that's just me, it's your decision.